Can wind compete with solar?

It’s lucky I like solar power because it’s impossible for me to open the X app without seeing insanely great news about solar deployment progress.

This progress is driven by consistent declines in solar cost, summarized in the graph below. Solar is on a fast track to “rounds to zero” cost for land-based energy generation.

Wind was initially cheaper than solar, but its learning rate is not as steep and solar, with no moving parts and no cranes required for deployment, has passed it in most places. Still, it’s a long road from here to energy market saturation with solar and batteries, so wind is not entirely out of the fight.

What will it take for wind to compete with solar? In other words, can wind get to $10/MWh? How?

Wind has clear economies of scale, expressed in the size of the turbine. This allows the dilution of engineering costs in the hub to be spread over more blade, as well as greater and more consistent winds higher above the ground. This trend has mostly topped out with the standard 1 MW wind turbine on land, now a common sight through much of the American West.

For offshore wind, however, there are fewer size constraints on part transportation and turbines can get truly monstrous. Take, for example, the latest behemoth: 16 MW out of China. Each blade weighs 54 T and is 123 m long. In principle, one of these can produce as much energy as ~100 acres of solar PV.

If the wind industry survives current cost growth challenges, the next frontier is the scale up off floating off-shore deployment in the deep ocean. Such turbines could be assembled on shore in ports and floated into position, taking advantage of unobstructed open ocean to reach impossibly enormous sizes and hopefully low enough costs to compete with solar.

What could this look like?

First, to solve the energy transport problem, I think it makes sense for floating offshore turbines to convert their cheap power into cheap energy-rich products, including synthetic fuel or light metals extracted from sea water. Instead of having to engineer some marine-compatible high voltage DC power transmission line, send a ship every few months to offload the product.

Second, floating offshore turbines may see the resurrection of the vertical axis wind turbine. While not impossible, achieving consistent orientation of a floating horizontal axis turbine into the wind presents substantial challenges and, more importantly, added cost. Vertical axis turbines work regardless of wind direction, potentially making up for their lower efficiency.

Third, what materials are cheapest? A post-stressed floating concrete structure could be 10x as cheap as a steel one, as concrete is significantly cheaper than steel.

Fourth, stability can be ensured by building a spar buoy-style structure. A floating structure is moved by waves in proportion to the change in wetted volume. A cork is thrown around, while a very long vertically oriented tower barely moves. The FLIP ship moved just a few inches in the heaviest seas. (I just learned it was scrapped last year – outrageous!)

Combine these ideas and we get a long cylindrical cement tower structure built horizontally on shore, floated into position, then uprighted by shifting water ballast internally. A lightweight steel vertical axis turbine is deployed from the top of the structure, driving a generator and any internal industrial hardware for synthetic fuels or metals.

A 1200 m long turbine, modeled below, would generate in excess of 100 MW per turbine. A fleet of 10,000 could supply the entire oil and gas energy needs of South Korea, Japan, or the UK. The idea could be proven at much smaller scale, or potentially scaled up to the limits of the abyssal depths.

The fin features inhibit vertical and rotational motion, but small thrusters or differential torque would allow the turbine to maintain its station in an ocean current.

I am not quite convinced that even a tech road map this bold could beat solar on cost, but for markets constrained in land area, this could be the next best thing.

8 thoughts on “Can wind compete with solar?

  1. So, what is the best hydrocarbon to manufacture on site? Methane is probably simplest, but then we have to compress it before shipping. Is there a liquid-at-room-temperature product that is simple to synthesize and widely useable? 

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    1. I’m not sure about “best”, but the first liquid hydrocarbon is pentane, which is 5 carbons. It would be easier to make methanol (1 carbon), which is a liquid and can be used directly to power an engine or even made into gasoline or other products.

      You can make methanol by taking carbon dioxide out of the air and combining it with hydrogen from electrolyzing the surrounding ocean water–basically a form of artificial photosynthesis.

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  2. Hi Casey,

    I’ve long been a fan of your blog posts and finally I find one that, having worked on offshore wind for 20 years, I can usefully comment on. 🙂

    Over the last decade, installed wind turbines are generally 2-3MW. Modern onshore turbines are more likely 4.5MW. We stopped installing 1MW machines a long time ago. Offshore turbines are generally 3x larger, designs are now underway for 20MW platforms.

    The floating offshore wind opportunity is assessed as being 4 times larger than that of fixed bottom offshore wind. That number is still constrained by water depth and distance from shore. There is enough capacity here to avoid needing to go out into the deep sea.

    All current designs require tethering to the seabed. Your concept does not. That means the counter-rotational force exerted by the submerged fins would need to provide a 100MW equivalent. They will not be able to do that. Perhaps two sets of counter-rotating fins would work better.

    Ensuring a horizontal access turbine is orientated into the wind is not a live problem, yaw motors in the nacelle have solved this. It is not materially more difficult in a floating turbine.

    One aspect that your content on Wind and Solar tends to miss is the synergy of these techologies. The output time-series of wind and solar are so different that in combination they present a statistically less variable output. Multiple studies of country’s energy systems have shown that deploying both technologies puts less stress on system balancing requirements. This is something you should look at closely for Terraforming Industries. There will be a sweet spot capacity combination between wind and solar that will result in less supply variation to the electrolysers, and ultimately lower degradation and cost. The optimal relative proportions will vary by location. If you are unable to make a cost-effective fully intermittent electrolyser, then wind and solar together might solve the conundrum to allow for a variable load electrolyser with minimal battery support.

    In terms of offtake. HVDC cables are now a mature technology. There are numerous operational 1GW+ submarine DC interconnections and many more on the way. Generating hydrogen on the turbine or a nearby platform is considered a plausible alternative and there are several offshore wind projects in development looking to do just that.

    Enjoy reading your mind as always, keep it coming.

    Chris

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  3. Not sure that the vertical wind turbine would be as good – yes it does not need to “slew” but one of the big advantages of offshore turbines is that the wind changes direction much slower.

    And with your lovely “spar” system it should be easy to turn the whole thing!

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  4. Wind doesn’t necessarily have to compete with solar, it has to compete with night time power sources — solar plus batteries, natgas, et cetera.  As long as it can sell power for more than running costs during the day it can make its fully loaded profit at night.

    Its biggest problem is that it is a capital intensive business at a time of expensive capital.

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  5. Once two costs are both negligible, other factors are likely to make the difference. Going from 99% (three point six five days of power outage per year) reliability to 99.9% (one outage per year, for about eight hours), to 99.99% (one such outage every ten years) is going to be more important than going from having the wholesale cost of energy be 1% of the overall cost of the electric grid to having it be 0.1%.

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  6. Interesting, but what do you mean by deep ocean? 1200m? I feel like that would be prohibitively expensive, but I am just a layman. I would love to see some numbers on this strategy.

    A side benefit, just like with decommissioned oil platforms would be increased biodiversity around the platform.

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